Do you truly know how to eat a banana? I thought I did, but oh, was I wrong. Luckily, I got the etiquette rundown and so much more during my sit down with Daytime Emmy-nominated Netflix Host, Author, Etiquette Expert, and wellness entrepreneur Sara Jane Ho. “Properness” has a bit of an overwhelming reputation. However, as we discussed everything from Jimmy Choos, to making grown men cry, Ho revealed that she hasn’t always been an expert, and making meaningful life changes isn’t as difficult as it seems.
Miia Popovics: I want to start off by asking about your personal style. I feel like you have such a sophisticated, defined sense of style that you showcase consistently. I would love to know how that’s evolved and if you’ve always dressed this way.
Sara Jane Ho: I’ve had such different styles. In Hong Kong, when I was a teenager, I was wearing super wide JNCO jeans and mini crop tops by Quiksilver Roxy. It was much more rock and goth, which I can’t believe my parents let me wear. Then, I went to boarding school in New Hampshire and became very preppy. When I went to college, (I) definitely kind of became that college student, wearing a hoodie or jeans. I would say that I honestly didn’t really come into my own personal, confident fashion style until five years ago. I wouldn’t say I felt particularly stylish until I hired a stylist.
Just before COVID, I’d hired a stylist because I was doing more TV work, and I felt like I just needed to up that game, and I learned so much from her. Her name was Lucy. She was in Shanghai, and she was my stylist for about two years. The best stylists are the ones who teach you enough that you then don’t need one. And I felt that’s what she did for me. But she just taught me so much. Let’s say I’m wearing a dark bottom, then I’ll wear more of a contrasting, light top. It’s these little off-handed details that make your whole look much more intentional.
MP: Yeah, I think the balance is where it always falls for me. You talked about having more of a goth influence than a preppy influence, but were there any consistent influences throughout your life that kind of informed these choices?
SJH: Oh yeah, comfort. Comfort is number one to looking and feeling good. That’s why I do not wear Jimmy Choo shoes anymore. Jimmy Choo shoes and Christian Louboutins, it’s like, come on. You can’t look good when you’re feeling crippled…and I’m a Sagittarius.
MP: Me too!
SJH: You too? Woo hoo! High five. Yeah, so I’m smack in the middle of Sagittarius. So, I like to wear things that are easy to take off.
MP: That’s why I don’t love sneakers; I feel like it takes so long to lace them and then take them off. And if I need to go out, I can just slip on a flat. But, I want to shift to talking about your career as a businesswoman because you’ve had experience in so many industries. I saw you had a brief moment in microfinancing, yes, and then you are now in education essentially, as well as in feminine care. So, I would love to know how all of these experiences contributed to each other and how those decisions informed your business practices.
SJH: I mean, being an etiquette expert and then popping up on IG feeds talking about vulvas definitely startled and surprised a bunch of people. But I guess looking back on it, everything I’ve done in my career is centered around two things: number one, bridging East and West, and secondly, helping women move through the world with more confidence. So whether that was from my etiquette content or from Antevorta, which is my feminine care brand, we have wash wipes and sprays for your intimate area to fight odor, dryness, and irritation formulated with traditional Chinese medicine. So again, it’s part of my East and West ethos, bringing the best of Eastern culture out. I grew up on herbal remedies in Hong Kong. So, I guess that’s how I’ve kind of seen everything I do and everything I continue to do.
MP: Would you say that when you did start making that transition, your audience was receptive to it, or was there a little bit of resistance?
SJH: Oh, both. Actually, it’s funny because our first customers were my followers. But I did get a few, well, really just one nasty DM that was like, “God, you’re talking about vaginas. I’m unfollowing you.” But, you know, you can’t please everybody. And I thought, wait, a woman with a vagina doesn’t want to see the word vagina? But, you know something, I actually really enjoy doing things that people don’t expect me to. I like being contrarian. So, I kind of revel in that.
MP: I think that’s a great way to live your life. I feel like you should be continuously surprising yourself.
SJH: Yeah, absolutely. I remember when I first started Antevorta. I have a cofounder who suffered from extreme vaginal irritation because she had a hormonal imbalance and she had endometriosis. I could tell it was giving her so much suffering, so much pain. I wanted to do some traditional Chinese medicine, and her family business is traditional Chinese medicine. So, that’s how we started Antevorta.
I remember my husband was like, “well, if you do this, then will everybody in China think of my wife when they think of vaginas?” And I was like, don’t be silly. Of course, part of me was thinking the same thing. But now, when my husband sees me and my cofounder together, he’ll walk into the room, and he’ll be like, “how are my two vagina queens?”
MP: That’s what your name plaque should read on your desk or on your door. But in the realm of comfortability…I feel like in your show, being on camera can be such a daunting thing, especially for these guests who have to open up and be vulnerable about some really personal things, and a lot of etiquette is about making people comfortable. So, how do you put these people at ease when they’re essentially bearing their life?
SJH: Oh yeah, in Episode Two, which was when I interviewed William, you could tell he had a barrier. He wasn’t letting himself be vulnerable, which was what I was really struggling with because I need to do that to make a change in your life, and also, you know, for the show.
What I loved about shooting the Netflix show was not just that I got to really hone my craft, but I also learned how to make a show. Which is that you have to make them laugh and cry. Like, that’s a good show. And with William, we had a lot of the laughs, but we didn’t really have the vulnerability side. I remember I had one last scene with him, and beforehand, my director came in. She was like, “all right, we have a lot of laughs. We need some of the tears now. We really need to get in there, make him vulnerable. Really let him open up.”
So, we were trying to figure out how to do that, and I was like, I need to put him with a big animal. Because I grew up horse riding, we found a stable, and we put him with a horse. So, we’re in this little arena, and all the cameras are on, and my director is standing behind them. I’m like, okay, all right, get the tears out of him; I have to make a grown man cry in five minutes. So, the first thing I said was, “close your eyes.” That way, it was just him and the feeling of the horse, and then after five minutes, he actually said, “I think I’m crying.”
MP: Wow, that’s honestly a huge accomplishment and such a short timeframe. Put that on Linkedin.
SJH: Yeah, I know, right?
MP: But, to finish up, I feel like a lot of students personally struggle with feeling grown up, and you talk so much about wanting to teach women and not children. I feel like, when we’re in this transitional period, it’s hard to feel mature. So, would you have any simple practices that someone could implement into their everyday routine to take those first steps?
SJH: Yeah, you know, I often say I teach women because I feel that in every child’s life, the most influential person is their mother. In terms of people who are nervous, and who are shy…let me give an anecdote.
I had a student. She was 21 or 22, and she was intensely and painfully shy. She had a very dominating father who was a successful businessman. He sent her to my school, and she lacked a lot of confidence. I gave her homework, which was for the next 30 days, to initiate a conversation with a stranger. I don’t care who that stranger is, it can be an Uber driver, a cleaning lady, or any guard outside a building, and report back to me weekly. After week one, she said she made friends with someone on the plane. By week two, she said that she would sit in the front of the car with the Uber driver so she could chat with him. After a month, she went to get a haircut, and the hairdresser told her that she was a lovely and outgoing young woman. She said she cried because nobody had ever told her that before.
You know, it just takes 30 days to build a habit. So, it sounds very daunting to get out there and speak to a stranger. But it’s not about perfection, it’s about progress. But if you try to consistently, just for 30 days, see how it changes your life.
Words by Miia Popovics