Ludovic de Saint Sernin is known for striking and sensual silhouettes that redefine gender norms and definitions of beauty and sex appeal. His namesake brand, based in Paris, has given representation to those who break the binary and lean into the fluidity of masculinity and gender. After years spent working at Balmain, he launched his eponymous brand in 2017. After just two collections, he was nominated for the 2018 LVMH Prize and was later one of ten nominees for the 2020 Woolmark Prize. His most recent collection for Fall 2024 debuted at New York Fashion Week in February in partnership with the Robert Mapplethorpe Foundation.
Last week, after his talk at SCADstyle 2024, Awaken Selfdom: Art as Protest, I had the opportunity to chat with him about queerness, identity, inspirations, and his career thus far.
Flora Medina: I’ll start just by asking how you’re enjoying Savannah so far and what you’ve seen of SCAD?
Ludovic de Saint Sernin: I love it. I’m so happy we came here. It was Marta, who is one of the creators of the exhibition, GENDERQUAKE, who wanted to have us in the show, which led to inviting us to come here. And I never knew about the school and stuff, so it was really exciting to discover everything and to meet all the students. It’s just really really good vibes. And it’s such a beautiful landscape and beautiful scenery. It’s a nice getaway from everything else.
FM: Yeah. I love hearing about how different people find out about SCAD. It’s always interesting to see who sort of brings people together.
LDSS: Totally.
FM: I guess I’ll start by talking about Patti Smith. Because, I mean, her body of work is incredible. I admire it, I know that so many SCAD students do as well. And I know that it’s had a significant influence on you, both personally and in your work. Could you talk a little bit about that?
LDSS: Well, it was when I was reading her book, Just Kids, that really changed me and my life and the way that I look at things. I think it’s a really, it’s like, I can’t recommend it more to read it if you haven’t; because I feel like it’s a great book where you are given tools about how someone figured out who they were as a person, who they are as an artist, what they want to represent, and how to cultivate that uniqueness that we all have, and understand what makes us special and how to put it out into the world. So it really, really helped me a lot. And I think, and I haven’t read it again–I think I should read it again–just to see how it feels to read it like all these years later. But yeah, she’s really changed my entire life. So it’s like, huge.
FM: Then sort of on a similar note, I know you didn’t come out until you were about 24.
LDSS: Yes.
FM: That’s obviously not really late in life.
LDSS: It is!
Medina: Later than some people would expect, especially with your identity and queerness being such a huge part of your designs.
LDSS: Totally.
FM: Could you talk about how that happening a little bit later in life, I guess, has shaped your relationship to queerness and how that sort of translates into your work?
LDSS: Well, it was really interesting because I kind of grew up in a pretty conservative environment in Paris, in the 16th arrondissement. So it’s like, I didn’t really have anybody that was queer in my environment. So, I didn’t know that it really existed, which makes me sound like I’m a hundred years old, but it really was kind of like more context and the references that I had around me and all that. There was no one queer in my family or anything like that. So it was after going to fashion school and discovering how other people live their lives and being in a community and opening myself up to you know, reading the book. And discovering that, you know, you can actually–with the book, what I loved was that Robert was in a relationship with Patti until he discovered that actually he was gay. And so that was really similar to me, where when I read the book, I had always been with girls. And then I was like, ‘Oh, that’s a guy that was with girls that’s into guys, that’s possible.’ That’s like an evolution of someone’s self because I wasn’t, like, in the closet. I just didn’t know anything else. But then I met a guy and fell in love with him, and he was older, and so he taught me a lot about what it was to be queer and to be gay. And so I had a lot of catching up to do. And the catching up I was kind of doing live as I was doing the collections referencing the queer icons that came before me and allow me to be, you know, strong about you know who I am and when I want to represent. And so it was really special to have to do all this discovery later when I knew myself, that I just didn’t have access to that part of myself that I that I didn’t know existed. So it was really special, and I think that if it could have never happened. So it’s amazing that it happened, even though I’m like a late bloomer, that it eventually did happen. And then I kind of switched and became like, you know, an example of someone that was queer, that was doing well, and so that was amazing to be able to then inspire people with my own story.
FM: That’s awesome. I liked last night when you were talking about sort of realizing that you look different from everyone else and being able to then use that as sort of an autobiographical element of your work. I want to ask a little bit more about that specifically, like showing yourself and your imagery. I know both of you (Ludovic’s image director also came to SCAD and was present for our interview) have been in campaigns for LDSS. So I wanted to know a little bit more about, I guess, what it means to you to have such a personal connection to your work. Especially because I think it’s one thing for a photographer or a painter to be doing self-portraits. I think when your medium is fashion, you’re ultimately giving that out to the rest of the world for them to wear it and experience.
LDSS: Right, yeah.
FM: How does it feel for you, doing something so personal in that sense?
LDSS: Well, it was kinda like when, before I even started the brand, I had an Instagram. It was my personal Instagram, and people were loving it and they were really into it. But I was kind of getting bored at some point of actually posting pictures of myself because it’s, like, boring, it’s fun, and it’s boring at the same time. There’s different kinds of how you feel about yourself or, what you want to post, or what you want to share. And so I actually started out by shooting other guys that actually look like me to kind of make people be like, ‘Oh, is that him? Or is that someone else?’ And, like, create that identity of the specific look that I have. And then when I started doing the brand, and I was posting myself wearing the brand, I was taking pictures that guys, typical looking, like, cis guys don’t really post. Like I was showing that I have, you know, a silhouette that was probably more feminine with a tiny waist and all of that, which I was embarrassed for a long time about. And then, the more I posted it, the more people loved it. And then they kind of gave me the courage to continue to do it and then inspire other people to do it. And then other guys that looked like me, they felt comfortable showing their body as well. Although it probably sounds to me like, ‘oh my god poor me, I don’t have a traditional, “man” body,’ but it was a complex for the longest time, and I was ashamed of it. Because I was like, ‘Why don’t I look like the other guys’ or the guys in the magazines or whatever? And changing that narrative is super important. And it opened up, you know, a whole niche of masculinity that was new and exciting and that girls would actually relate to as well. Because of that, you know, fluidity in the representation of the body, whether you’re a guy or a girl, but just showing that we actually all have curves and whether we’re comfortable with them or not, to just try and embrace them.
FM: So sort of related to that, at the end of your show in New York, you walked the runway.
LDSS: Yeah.
FM: Can you talk a little about, making that decision?
LDSS: It wasn’t really my decision, it was his–I’m pointing to my image-director-slash-boyfriend. The thing is, when you do a show, you spend essentially six months of your life creating a collection that’s going to be worn by, you know, the people that you find the most beautiful, the most representative of your vision. And so you’re here to serve them and serve beauty and to create an ensemble of work that’s desirable. And then, it’s so weird when, like, you’re the designer, and you come out and do like this little awkward hi, or bow, or where you’re running, and then you have a random look that’s not part of the collection. I walked because we were really happy with the collection and really proud, and we also kind of wanted something that felt like a community. If I’m coming out as a designer like that, it’s like I’m separating myself from my work. And I like to be creating the idea of a group that’s like, you know, confident, fierce, that believes in themselves, and you know, I have done a collection that was all about being your own muse. And I think that that confidence is so important, and it shouldn’t be mistaken for vanity or ego, whatever. It’s more of a thing of like, ‘Yes, I did that. I’m serving it.’ And I’m an extension of, you know, my work, so we just wanted to slay, I guess. That was the idea.
FM: And it was fierce, so it worked out. So also a big part of that New York show, and the reason that you showed in New York, was Robert Mapplethorpe and the Mapplethorpe Foundation. For those who maybe aren’t as familiar with both his work in and of itself, but also your relationship with it, could you talk a little bit about how that partnership came to be?
LDSS: Well, so, like I said, reading the book Just Kids by Patti Smith inspired me to start my own brand. And it inspired me to tell my story and to express myself through an entire brand. And so I’ve always referenced him since the first step. In the first collection, there was, you know, the eyelet briefs, and there was this idea of like this really soft, gentle reference to BDSM. But because it was my first collection, I was a bit shy. So, I didn’t dare to go too far with it. But I was already referencing his work. And then I figured out that same year, actually, funnily enough, is the year that Raf Simons did his collaboration with the Foundation in 2017. And so I knew there was a possibility that I could work with him eventually. I just wanted to be ready to do it. So seven years later, I was like, I think I’m ready, I really want to do this. So we reached out to them, and they loved the idea of working together and the vision I had for it. Most people that had had access to these archives and procured the rights to use his work usually used it as prints, and I’m not really a huge print person. And so I wanted rather to repurpose his work. And make the people that he photographed come out of the frame of these photos and onto my runway. And they loved it and they thought it was important for the younger generation to discover his story and his work and to keep on with his legacy. So it was really, really special, and I did it as if, you know, as if he was still with us and he was in the room with me, and we’re working together; that was kind of my fantasy. Thank God they created that foundation so that we could do that. So it was like a dream come true.
FM: You’ve obviously been doing your brand for a little while now. But you’ve also worked at Balmain, and you were Creative Director for Ann (Demuelemeester). Can you talk about those experiences working under someone else’s name and maybe things that you learned through those experiences that you’ve been able to bring into your own work?
LDSS: Yeah, I mean with Balmain, that was my first, like, fashion studio family, and I was working with Olivier (Rousteing). It was like 10 years ago, maybe more or less. And he was really, we bonded really quickly, and he taught me a lot of, like…you know how you know fashion is very time-consuming. And so the people that you work with and collaborate with are part of your family. And that those values of togetherness and kindness, and you know, putting the human relationship first, was something that I learned with him that I really wanted to take with me and with my brand. And then with Ann it was, it was amazing because it was the first time that I was the creative director of another brand. And it was super interesting to see how I could give both myself and the brand, and sort of like, how that relationship exists together. And it was one of my favorite collections I’ve ever done. It was really, really special.
FM: I’d like to ask about the dynamic of having an image director/boyfriend, and that element of creative partnership that you, I guess, bring to the brand. Because I think it’s evident so much in the storytelling for the brand that you both have a very personal connection to it.
LDSS: Yeah.
FM: I guess I’m wondering how that came to be and was it creative before it was romantic or the other way around?
LDSS: Yeah, we actually started off as we worked together. He came to work with me and we were originally in relationships separately. So it was not even; we didn’t even think of each other romantically at all. But we loved each other and we love working together. So we built a really strong working relationship and then a friendship because of you know, spending so much time together. And then eventually he broke up with his boyfriend, I broke up with my boyfriend and then we kind of found each other. That was kind of like the last step to access in this relationship, was to turn it into a romantic relationship. And it’s amazing because I get to be with my boyfriend and my partner every single day and experience, you know, so many different things and opportunities. Creating the brand is one thing, but then carrying it on for, like, all these years. It’s so much work, and I can’t do it alone. Having someone that I can always have by my side through, you know, the best days, the worst days, is very unique and very special. But I think it is very typical of designers. A lot of designers or creative directors work with their partners because it’s a job that’s your entire life. So you’re either single or, I don’t know. There’s a lot of fashion couples, so I guess we’ve become one of them.
Pieces of Ludovic de Saint Sernin’s body of work can be seen as part of the exhibition GENDERQUAKE: Liberation, Appropriation, Rejection at the SCAD Museum of Art, now through July 2, 2024.
Interview by Flora Medina
Graphics by Eve Friday
Special thanks to Dirk Standen.